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« Odgovor #30 poslato: Januar 04, 2010, 14:29:23 »

...Jazz... Rock'n Roll... Band filmovi... Cvidze u suštini vrh modernog umetničkog (mada i ne samo umetničkog, i onog manje umetničkog - komercijalnog) stvaralaštva..
Taman da su samo to smislili - sasvim je dovoljno od njih...
Za ostalo, manje više se slažem, mada mi je čudno da niko nije komentarisao Waynov post.. Roll Eyes
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« Odgovor #31 poslato: Januar 04, 2010, 16:06:33 »

@Wayne
Etnic diversity is something I very much apreciate about your country. It is great to have, muslims, christians, jews that tolerate each other, like in America. I do not like America for one reason. Your politicians. They published a lot of propagandic material against my people. Basically they put themselves as world policemen and judges, they say they are fighting terrorists in reality they are terrorizing others. But i love your country for great science and artistic advancements you made (as you can see  in my choice of music Wink). Many great men, which i respect, are Americans. But i still regret, that the only reason that only our politicians are prosecuted in Hague (i don’t say they didn’t deserved it, cause they did) and yours aren’t, is because America is the world leader. Vietnam, Cambodia, Panama, South American countries, there were also crimes against humanity there and killings but no American politican was prosecuted. Hell, Henri Kissinger even got Nobel Peace Prize altough he was the biggest supporter of of Vietnam war.


@B
Pa naravno da ne mogu kada je America dobila nezavisnost u 18. veku (1760 i neke ako se ne varam). Na samom pocetku svog nastanka (Bill of rights i Americki ustav) Amerika je udarila kamen temeljac modernom pravu . Da su ubijali Indijance i izvrsili genocid nad njima to stoji. Ali tesko da su uzeli od njih ukrali zlato, severnoamericki indijanci nikada nisu cenili zlato, no to je nebitno. Zapravo dokazano je da je neandertalac bio isto inteligentan kao i homo sapiens Grin. Salu na stranu, jednosmerna struja je bila od koristi i jos uvek je i nikad se ne zna kakvu ce ulogu imati u buducnosti. Sto se tice Aljaske. Pa to mogu samo dobri trgovci po meni Tongue. Projekat Menhetn je poceo jos 1939 ili 1940 pre nego sto su zarobili nazi naucnike, americki naucnici su imali mnogo vise udela. Da sto se tice NASA-e to su nazi naucnici izveli. Uvoze ljude? Ja mislio da su ti ljudi dobrovoljno dosli. To sto su oni prvi, i za sada jedini uvideli vrednost skolovanih ljudi je samo plus vise. Da smo mi bili tako pametni… Ne, ne treba zahvaliti ljudima iz indije, kine, rusije itd. Kompjuter je delo amerikanaca, sem fon-Nojmana koji je rodjen u Madjarskoj.
Zen je vec rekao jazz i Rock, moderno pravo i bankarstvo je razvijeno u Americi. Pojam o ljudskim pravima je prvo razvijen u Americi, ovaj nacin zivota koji prihvatamo, svideo se nama ili ne, je Americki. Ja ne volim Ameriku ali reci da nisu ucinili i mnogo dobrog za svet jednostavno nije tacno.
Nisi siguran da se Srbi doseljavaju u 7 veku ? Nisam ni ja,mislim da su tu otkad je sveta i veka... Grin
Da, da, a pre sveta smo dosli iz Srednje zemlje predvodjeni Gandalfom Belim Roll Eyes. A kako zaboraviti i cara Nino Belova koji je vladao celim svetom od Atlantide do Indije. Steta sto mu sin Niko Belic nije bio dorastao da nastavi ocevim stopama Roll Eyes.
« Poslednja izmena: Januar 04, 2010, 16:09:50 Clockwork Dreamer » Sačuvana

Ja sam uvek u pravu. To realnost gresi Wink.

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« Odgovor #32 poslato: Januar 04, 2010, 23:10:32 »

Clockwork Dreamer, I respect your viewpoint and find your position basically just and appropriate. USA politicians disturb me, too ... a lot! Main concern now as it appears to me, a Congress that does not work the way that it was intended. Compound that with a history of aggressiveness, hell, I'm scared too. Saying that, I, as an American, can mouth off like this and not fear a Gestapo raid at my house. That is part of the good foundation here. Please know that we are mostly a good people, and that we have no more power over our politicians than you do over yours. Do you know of a country where propaganda, public opinion, power of money, and ideology do not outweigh reason, justice and love of all mankind?

As for your country, let me say two things. If I were Serbian, knowing my temperament, I would probably be rather pissed off. I have read European history, and your powerful friends in all directions, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Turkey, Greece, not to mention England and Germany and USA, have stuck their nose into your business, raped your culture, carved up the Balkans with ridiculous boundaries, and intentionally put your subcultures into internecine conflict for Hundreds of years.

Now, in the 1990's, what I read in USA popular press about "Balkan conflict" was the brief news clips about horrid atrocities of Ratko, Arkan Tigers, and arrogance of Radovan K. I read about mass graves in Serebrenica, and about the siege of Sarajevo. That's about it. By reading European news sources I got a wider perspective. We were painted a rather narrow picture here in our free press. Our press is free, but not unbiased. Honestly, my conclusion is that atrocities occurred on all sides, it was all-out war. Let it be as history. Take my word, the sooner these issues are laid to rest, the sooner the Balkans will unite as the world power they can and should be. Recall, we in the USA had a horrid Civil War where brother killed brother. A minority still want to continue this shit too, But most of us have gotten over the hate, if not the history.

Odd thing, I came to this site because I liked your music. I like your thinking, too. Wayne
« Poslednja izmena: Januar 04, 2010, 23:13:00 JWH1947 » Sačuvana
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« Odgovor #33 poslato: Januar 05, 2010, 00:16:40 »

@Wayne
I told u only reason i do not like America is politics. Ofc most Americans are good people. There are no country with all good as well as all bad people. Thing I love about American people is your high tollerance to diversity. No bad people can have that. If we had it maybe Balkan wars wouldnt happen but thats another story...

"Do you know of a country where propaganda, public opinion, power of money, and ideology do not outweigh reason, justice and love of all mankind?"
Sadly no.

The worst thing with my countrymen is making heroes of murderrers like Mladic, Arkan etc. They are ignorant as most of your fellowmen, not bad people just missinformed. They trully believe that the whole world has a grudge against us, so they cellebrate them as heroes. And I agree with you atrocites occured on all sides unfortunatelly.

"Recall, we in the USA had a horrid Civil War where brother killed brother. A minority still want to continue this shit too, But most of us have gotten over the hate, if not the history."
Well, this forum is somekinda way to get over the hate Wink. You can find people from all over ex-Yugoslavia, mostly Serbs, but nationality plays minor role here Wink.
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Ja sam uvek u pravu. To realnost gresi Wink.

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« Odgovor #34 poslato: Januar 05, 2010, 07:47:29 »

We are in agreement. Come to think of it, the 20th Century has been the bloodiest century in all mankind. With all our advancements as a species it is now that many are still at each other's throats over tribal matters. You are right, misinformation and ignorance is the root of the problem. A basic problem also is that it is the Politicians' advantage to keep the people ignorant.

Hatred and mistrust Simmer under the surface of daily life today just as it always has. It is up to each of us to get this beast out of the center of the picture. I'll make enemies as well as friends with this statement, but did you ever notice that the extremes of nationalism and religion have always Gruesome consequences? That holds for all countries, all tribes, and all religions, including my own.

Now for ignorance of my fellow Americans, it is true, many of us can shoot off statistics about football and basketball, and many know the betting odds on every game. Take these same people and ask them to point out Austria as opposed to Australia and you may get a dumb look. Now, with them, you are correct, distinguishing between Serbia and Croatia would be out of the question. They'd be lucky to hit the correct continent. Then there are others of us who read and travel as well as watch football. 

What I have learned of this world in 62 years.  There are hateful people in every country.  They don't need a reason to hate; just being different is enough.  Then add greed and jealousy. There's the witches' brew.  But the good news is that most of us are wired to see a better future, a future where reason and cooperation win out.  I know, it is a dream, but I'd rather hope for this than dwell on the alternative.  Maybe sometime, for our children's children.

I spoke of your country.  Now I speak of mine.  My personal opinion is that USA needs to rethink its place in the world, drastically tone down its willingness to intrude in other peoples' business, work out fair trade agreements with cooperative countries, and take the money spent on war and put it into improving the crumbling infrastructure of our own country.  As for "spreading democracy to the rest of the world" that is pure bullshit.  Why are we not spreading democracy to remote countries with no strategic importance or coveted resources? Some of my acquaintances of conservative orientation would call me a traitor, but that's OK, it's my true opinion and I am not alone and unrepentant. I'm just saying my country is not perfect, and these are some things that I think would be most appropriate for improvement. Now, I repeat, one of the things that makes me proud to be an American is my ability to speak my mind and not be shot at sunrise. Mr. Stalin and Mr. Hitler and some others that we all know would not have tolerated this banter.

It is actually very good for me to get your viewpoints.  How else would I be able to understand your thoughts and ideas if you do not tell me? 

I consider myself generally informed, not overly bright, but hard to insult, but don't go too far, for, you know us Americans, I have lots of big guns (one even from Kragujevac) and that "Scarface" mentality.  Grin



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« Odgovor #35 poslato: Januar 05, 2010, 08:18:29 »

Incidentally, speaking of firearms, I build flintlock (stone lock) rifles as used during our Revolutionary War.  By today's standards, these are primitive guns, but extremely functional.  These are used for hunting white-tail deer mostly.  You can go to www site for Contemporary Longrifle Association and see some of my work under "artisans" listing: Wayne Heckert.  Deer hunting is big business in Pennsylvania and we have a separate season for flintlocks.  Also lots of bear and turkey.  No, they are not used to rob supermarkets or conduct gang-banger drive-by shootings.  Those boys wouldn't even know how to load one of these.

 Pennsylvania has two big cities, Philadelphia in the east and Pittsburgh in the west.  In between and to the north, about three hundred kilometers of pastures, forests, farm land and small towns.  Lots of wilderness for hunting.  Schools even close down on first day of hunting season around here.  Forget the students, they can't even get enough teachers to show up on opening day.  Part of our frontier culture, I guess.
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« Odgovor #36 poslato: Januar 06, 2010, 20:46:32 »

I saw your works, on the site Contemporary Longrifle..
Kod:
http://www.longrifle.ws/artisans/artisan.asp?ID=319&membersonly=yes
and I don't like arms and killing stuff, but I must admit that they are nicely made like art pieces. I saw guns like yours in Montenegro, and in museum's...
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« Odgovor #37 poslato: Januar 07, 2010, 00:08:14 »

I only kill what I eat.  Actually somewhat a pacifist dreamer rather than a hater.  Have not killed a deer in 20 years, but, turkey...that stuff tastes good. There must be 700 of us in USA who build flintlocks, and 100,000 who use them annually. We are traditional hunters, not gangsters.  Gang bangers can buy AK 47's from Bulgaria and China for the price of an ounce of decent smoking dope...so I've been told.   Our rifles would be of no interest to them.  Incidentally, regarding modern guns, do you think I would live in USA without a few?  Truth is, everybody on the streets knows the game.  If the look in the eye shows fear, you are a dead man.  If your eyes say "I'm prepared" the thugs let you alone.  It is that simple.  That's the world we live in.
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« Odgovor #38 poslato: Januar 07, 2010, 02:03:26 »

God for you. I don't judge you, just tell that is artistic, thats the point. You are some kind of musketeer in regard of gangsters. You live in America, and you are OK. Things that you say are truth. I agree. But, I live in Serbia, and there people take arms only if they go to war, and we are very god in that - we win almost every war..  you know our history. Last 2 decade, America slowly, and certainly come to us.. drugs, and gangsters, we also have that, but it's still minor thing. We don't wear the rifles and gangs on the street. It's no need for that. It's very peacefully there.

I am vegetarian for more then 20 years, and always was very hard to force me to eat meat. I live in Serbia, this is still "green country" and there 30%(more of less) people eat what they or some in the family, or in the village - made: milk, vegetables, fruits, honey, eggs, and thing like that, and none of them must kill for eat.. somebody do that, of course.
I am pacifist, I think that every war and aggression come from inside us - start in our mind, our physiology, our acts, so I do not make nothing what is some kind of aggression. Nobody beat me, and I don't beat nobody in my life.. But I am still in war. War against all kind of aggression. Aggression which start in our minds. Thats my point of view.

Na srpskom:
Dobro za tebe. Ne osuđujem te, samo kažem da je to umetnički (urađeno), to je poenta. Ti si neka vrsta musketara u odnosu na gangstere. Živiš u Americi i ti si ok. Stvari koje govoriš su istina. Slažem se. Ali ja živim u Srbiji, a ljudi ovde uzimaju oružje samo ako idu u rat, i mi smo dosta dobri u tome - dobili smo gotovo svaki rat... ti znaš našu istoriju.
Poslednje dve dekade "Amerika" lagano i sigurno dolazi ovde.. droge i gangsteri, mi to takođe imamo, ali to je još uvek minorna stvar. Mi ne nosimo puške i oružje na ulici. Nema potrebe za time. Ovde je veoma mirno.

Vegetarijanac sam već više od 20 godina, a i inače, uvek je bilo teško naterati me da jedem meso. Živim u Srbiji, ovo je još uvek "zelena zemlja", ovde 30% stanovništva (manje-više) jede ono što oni sami, ili neko iz familije, ili na selu - proizvede: mleko, povrće, voće, med, jaja, i slične stvari, i niko od njih ne MORA da ubija da bi jeo.. neko to naravno čine, ali ne moraju.

Ja sam pacifist, i mislim da svaki rat i agresija počinju unutar nas - počinju u našoj misli, našoj fiziologiji, našim delima, i ja ne činim ništa što bi moglo biti neka vrsta agresije. Niko me nije tukao, i nikog nikad nisam tukao.. Ali sam još uvek u ratu. Ratu protiv svake vrste agresije. Agresije koja počinje u našim mislima. To je moj ugao gledanja.
« Poslednja izmena: Januar 07, 2010, 02:23:44 ZenTale » Sačuvana

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« Odgovor #39 poslato: Januar 07, 2010, 06:22:57 »

You explain it well and I do not disagree. There is a man-made problem here in my part of the USA. Because of "game animal management" of the deer population, the herd has become larger than nature would produce, and now, with human development, they are frequenting Suburbs and towns. The managers in their infinite wisdom have created an artificial situation that depends on sport hunters "harvesting" thousands of deer per year.

As for Bear that come into towns, the Rangers shoot them with darts and then remove them to the mountains. The moment they wake up and the drug Wears off, they head right back to the place they were found, sometimes Hundreds of miles away. They are the kings of our forest. Man can not outfight them, outrun them, outclimb them or outsmart them in their habitat. You think you are hunting them and often they are stakling you. Sometimes they win. 

Truth is, some men go to hunting camp to hunt. Others go to get away from their wives, play cards and drink beer. You know, male bonding ritual. 
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« Odgovor #40 poslato: Januar 07, 2010, 06:50:11 »

Da, naravno da razumem. Kod nas se to slično dešavalo samo po planinskim selima i to u zimskom periodu. A zaista je to interesantno da životinje dolaze u gradove. To mi liči na: The nature strikes back! Smiley Dakle, s obzirom da znam da u prirodi postoji zakon akcije i reakcije, i prirodna težnja za ravnotežom i uravnotežavanjem, razmišljam o tome: Šta je nateralo životinje u gradove? Kakva je to neravnoteža u pitanju? Da li je to zato što su gradovi "ne-prirodni"? Da možda životinje ne čine neku vrstu usluge, tako što gradove čine "prirodnijim" na neki način - svojim dolaskom? A možda je samo glad u pitanju.. Ali opet, kako to da ne mogu u prirodi da nađu hranu?

Naravno, vi čuvate sebe i svoje porodice od prirode tj. životinja koje vas mogu ugroziti i to je jasno i opravdano.
U Srbiji naravno postoje lovci, i lovačka društva, ja znam neke od njih i shvatam njihovu strast za lovom. Mnogi od njih nikad ništa nisu ulovili, ali opet idu stalno u lov sa ostalima, pešače i obilaze brda i šume, u potrazi za vukovima, zečevima, lisicama, fazanima itd. Postoje čak i lovna područja, pa čak i lovni turizam, gde stranci dolaze da love određenu vrstu divljači. Ali čak je i tu bilo nekih zloupotreba.. ali nije toliko bitno.
Raspričali smo se o svemu i svačemu, što je malo offtopic na ovu temu - Šta misli svet o Srbiji.. Roll Eyes
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« Odgovor #41 poslato: Januar 10, 2010, 06:21:01 »

What does the world think of Serbia? From what I am reading here, maybe similar to what it thinks of the USA. Some important things in common, or at least outside perception of them similar. A proud people, passionate, resilient and creative, with historically strong warriors, ready and willing to kick butt if necessary. Main difference, what constitutes "necessary."  Let's face it, our critics see aggressive tendencies in both our nations.

You are correct in saying that USA press slants news here to bolster impression that Serbia is expansionist and domineering, while recent events do nothing to reinforce this stereotype.  Specifically the creation of a new country took land and resources from Serbia. No one here mentions that. Again, this thread asked for us to say what we think, and these are just my views.

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